Earth works - water management - Cost of earth works

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Peter Warne, May 2, 2003.

  1. Peter Warne

    Peter Warne Junior Member

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    Hi permapeople
    I am a permie in waiting. I am retiring with my wife in July, coming back from Hong Kong to live on our 14 acres in Nimbin, NSW. I should wait till I get there to ask this, but I'm just itching to get my mind round the possibilities and feasibilities. Our block was carved out of a cattle farm about 10 years ago. It's long and sloping, and at present, apart from the house, about half way up the slope from the road, is covered with grass with a sprinkling of some sort of wattle/acacias which are reaching the end of their life span. I've read Bill M's Permaculture Design Manual, cover to cover, and I want to (1) put at least one more dam up at the top of our block (to gravity feed the garden and fruit trees) and (2) carve swales right across the contour lines from top to bottom. A bit like one of the first permaculture design on pages 209/210 of Bill M's Intro to Permaculture (except that our property faces west).

    My questions, (as far as can be answered in a very general way):
    - What sort of cost can I expect this sort of operation to come to?
    - Will it be more economical to buy some sort of grading blade to attach to the small tractor I am thinking of buying (assuming that we plan well enough to 'get it right first time'), or would it be preferrable to just pay a contractor to come in and do it?

    Anyone got any ideas about this?

    Peter
     
  2. d_donahoo

    d_donahoo Junior Member

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    Peter -

    cost is economies of scale and quotes can vary tremendously.
    i am finding it is more important for me to get an earthworks company who understand permsculture principles and so operate in an effective way - not just coming to dig another dam.

    cost wise, not sure in Northern NSW, but in Central Vic here are some comparisons.

    a friend had a 5ML dan dug for $2500 (considered a pretty good deal)

    i've set aside about $8000 to do earthworks across 2 acres of our 3 ha block. This includes 4.5ML dam, prepartion of house site, shed and garden levels and 500m of roads.

    This has not included the road base (still working on a contra deal for that one)...

    anyway - hope that small and limited perspective begins to help.

    i am at the start of this aspect of permaculture too.

    what i can not vouch for enough is good working documents. i have becaome obsessed with topographic maps and CAD programs and working out the numbers before doing anything. good planning is the key and while it might be good to do it yourself. earthworks are fundamentals of design - they cost, but also to redo soemthing will cost much more. i recommend getting people who can really help you to do quality work - the cost will be repaid over and over if done well.
     
  3. Chook Nut

    Chook Nut Junior Member

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    i can't offer many pearls of wisdom but you should find a few permie ppl up that way when you move there.....

    Byron Bay is only about 30kms away and thats where Seed Savers are (https://www.seedsavers.net) .... they should have quite a few contacts there as they have a lot of volunteers .... and after speaking with some of them there are a few who practice a bit of permaculture....(i was there this weekend for there Open Garden Scheme day)

    good luck

    Dave
     
  4. d_donahoo

    d_donahoo Junior Member

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    hey peter.

    just been reading a new book that i think is worth a look if you want to get up to speed on dam construction.

    written for uni students or small land owners looking at developing water catchment systems.

    not too much jargon and very comprehensive - more at a traditional agriculture perspective than permaculture - but combined with permaculture knowledge - extremely valuable.

    Farm Dams: Planning, Construction and Maintenance
    by Barry Lewis
    pub. land links press
    https://www.landlink.csiro.au

    has a lot on costs and viability of dams too, and plenty of stuff addressing your questions
     
  5. Peter Warne

    Peter Warne Junior Member

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    Thanks for your replies Dan and Dave

    I'll get hold of that book definitely - it seems to be expressly for our situation. And I will definitely be out to develop contacts in the region Dave - Seed Savers, and of course the Permaculture Research Inst is just nearby in the Channon.

    Peter
     
  6. Chook Nut

    Chook Nut Junior Member

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    there is also a Permaculture Centre in Nimbin called Djanbung Gardens......

    they have a website too....... https://earthwise.org.au/

    cheers

    Dave
     
  7. permaculture.biz

    permaculture.biz Junior Member

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    Hello,

    In most cases in Australia dirt costs about $AUD1 per cubic metre to shift once. Move it again and the same cost applies. So you need to calculate what the volume of the earthworks will be - and you need to place earthworks efficiently so as to get the most "bang for your bucks". Dan.D's mate's $2.5K 5ML dam is likely to be on a flat site where the storage ratio is far superior to a steep site - one of the reasons why in keyline design you don't go much higher than the keypoint with dam construction - its just not efficient. The book Dan. D recommended is good - another old fav. is KD Nelson's "Design and Construction of Small Earth Dams. I also have an article published a few years ago in the Permaculture Activist (USA) on the subject of earthworks planning (mostly dams). This is featured on my website (https://www.permaculture.biz).

    Cheers,

    Yours and Growing,

    Darren Doherty

    Applied Diploma of Permaculture Design, (Education, Site Design, System Establishment & Implementation) Permaculture Institute (1995)

    Permaculture Design Certificate, Permaculture Institute (1993, 1995, 2001)

    Whole Farm Planning Certificate (Train the Trainer), University of Melbourne (1995)

    principal consultant permaculture.biz
     

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