Blessed are the short-sighted, they shall become councillors

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by ho-hum, May 11, 2006.

  1. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    And before someone chimes in, NO, I don't believe aliens run the world from secret base on the dark side of the moon.
     
  2. RobWindt

    RobWindt Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "Permaculture is about more than just "growing stuff", and Floot's first post was about bureaucratic resistance to the will of the people to beneficially redesign their built environment"

    A good point that is often missed, reclaiming community and ensuring a fair distribution of resources are just as valid as growing stuff
    Rob
     
  3. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,590
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jim Bob

    I like conspiracy theories.

    I particularly liked the one about 2 dozen turban-wearing, camel-jockey, cave-dwellers from afghanistan 'attacked' america.

    The other funny one was 'saddam hussein is an imminent threat'

    I also very much like to hear political opinions that come from other permaculturists that would undoubtedly use the same permaculture and sustainability filters that I use.

    A couple of relevant issues that spring from this is that U-238 is now found across the globe, including the ice caps. Terrorist laws enacted in some countries can now be used to target marijuana smokers. Iraq is the first GM FIRST country on earth with only 'approved' seeds being allowed to enter Iraq.

    Our own CSIRO & state govt ag departments are 'investigating' GM crops for our benefit. Anyone noticed a food shortage or a famine in Australia over the past 100 years?

    I personally believe we too often dismiss politics and political theories as 'not relevant to me' and we do so at our own peril. I can probably be charged with sedition for saying 'HANG THE BASTARDs' when discussing australia's current political leadership. Yet this has been a de rigeur response in every pub in australia to matters political.

    This is a forum for permaculturists I havent found any TOS that says any topic is taboo or that we must only discuss topics in the 'book'. We have a moderator [or two] called Murray who has a laissez faire style when it comes to topics and such. So go for it till you are 'tapped on the shoulder'.

    [BTW, I have been a financial member of an aussie conservative party for about 23 years. I am due to have dinner with my Senator in the next week or so and be certain that I will and do bend his ear.]

    Cheers

    floot
     
  4. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Floot, did you catch the February 25 Radio National Background Briefing programme on Walmart in China? It was very interesting. https://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/st ... 576650.htm

    I share your frustratgion about politics. We Australians are notorious for our complacency, crying into our beers about the "crooks who run the show", yet being unwilling in many cases to even try to understand what our local members stand for, let alone to get a grip on some of the larger issues. No problem getting a conversation going about Big Brother, or the footy, but!

    In the 80s, when the green movement was getting off the ground, a lot of "green Independants" resisted the push to join into a party structure because they didn't want to become like the people they opposed. They didn't want to get drawn into the heirarchy and entanglement of compromises that Jim Bob describes, but, as Jim Bob points out, that's the nature of politics.

    I wonder what other permies think about this situation? I can't see how a Permaculture political party is viable, since party politics is a big part of the problem, but I'm certain that we need to muscle up to the politicians somehow.
     
  5. Ryan

    Ryan Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    'conspiracy' conspiracy (n.) An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
    conspiracy (n.) A group of conspirators.
    conspiracy (n.) An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.

    Political commentator Micheal Parenti has said it is a conspiracy reality not conspiracy theory as elected officials and corporate leaders frequently meet in private to discuss their criminal intent. It is no flook that the majority of political officials and the corporate cronies who back them, share the same agenda, basically to guarentee the future of a synthetic, consumer orientated culture. But JimBob is right we can't wait for these racketeers to do the right thing, we must make them follow. We do not have the time for them to change on their own.

    It seems that with power comes greed. That greed has plagued leaders for centuries and it fosters a tendency to do what ever it takes to retain power and gather more wealth. So they build their empires with our tax money and use the media to confuse people.

    The only form of government I'd truely support would be decentralized, locally based direct democracies to ensure that no one person has absolute control.
     
  6. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,405
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Okay so maybe we do have a conspiracy!
     
  7. Honeychrome

    Honeychrome Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jim Bob-
    How about an attribution for the first building picture you included in your post? Wow, would that my dingy block in NYC (or any block in NYC) looked like that. My guess is somewhere in Spain....

    I do agree that one must start with one's self, and just do what one can to create the kind of world and life one wants, step by step.
     
  8. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,590
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Just going back to my original post. I do believe the council wanted to help and could see benefit in my proposal. What really tripped them up was the entire insurance issue. We all know of personal injury insurance claims that have settled for millions.

    This is because councils/governments have been seen as 'soft targets' by individuals intent on turning [often] their own stupidity into some sort of lotto win. Every time I see news footage of a Blue Mountains helicopter rescue I think that will cost the community another million dollars.

    If I had been such a councillor would I have been able to ignore the insurance issues raised by my request?

    I know of a claim many years ago in the NT where a drunk punched his girlfriend off a small cliff. She spent some time in a wheelchair and the claim was settled out of court for one million dollars. The reason was that the conservation commission should have known the risk the cliff presented and fenced it off. The warning signs posted were insufficient because it was an assumption on their part that people would comprehend them.

    Should we make public areas 'no fault zones' or 'enter at own risk'?

    floot
     
  9. Jim Bob

    Jim Bob Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You can get an attrbution for any image by going right-click, "copy image location", then pasting the url in your browser. Then by trimming the "image.jpg" or whatever from the url, you can see the website it came from.

    The first image was posted on the permaculture.org.au site, it comes from this article on balcony design. Where that is, you'd have to ask whoever wrote the article. My guess is also Spain. The second image is of a Moscow apartment building. Of course it could be anywhere, which was my point.

    We've reached a certain point without intending to. If you asked people if they wanted to live in dingy apartment blocks, or in homes miles from work, spending hours every week stuck in traffic, with nothing growing in their yard but weeds trhough cracks in concrete... if you ask them if they want it that there are many people who can't get a job, yet those with jobs regularly do lots of unpaid overtime... if you ask them if they want standardised food products, only one type of orange to buy, but thirty types of orange juice... Well, I think you'd find most people say, "no, I don't want things to be like this."

    The problem is that things aren't directed by what most people want. They just sort of drift along. Floot here was looking for leadership from his councillors. He thought that since "leader" is in their job description, they'd be doing that. A "leader" is someone who walks in front of the group, and the group decides to follow them. Sadly, that's not anyone we elect, or anyone appointed by boards of directors, etc. Leaders make themselves.

    So if you want to change something, just go ahead and do it. If you want a tree to grow, then plant it. Councils are really rather dozy sorts, the tree will be all grown up and dropping fruit before they even notice. They only notice more quickly if some rich bastard complains. Like here in Melbourne, the trees along the beaches are being poisoned and ringbarked by the owners of luxury apartments. "But the tree hurts my view of the beach!" Yes, you moron, and if there are no trees, in a few years you'll have no beach, either.

    Just go ahead and plant what you reckon, floot. If the council actually notices, then when they come to cut it down, lodge a motion. That'll take six months to go through the processes. When it fails, lodge an appeal. Another six months go by. And so on. Councils and courts are fucking slow. By the time they actually get the legal right to remove the trees, there'll be hundreds of them and well-grown and fruiting, and public protest will prevent them from removing them.
     
  10. heuristics

    heuristics Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    blessed are the short-sighted

    saw this in a list of "joke" definitions


    Committee: Individuals who can do nothing individually and sit to decide that nothing can be done together

    can also be applied to "local government - councils"
     
  11. Loris

    Loris Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't think I want to be political. I just want to do stuff maybe with other people who want to do the same stuff as me because its easier with more people. How do we come to this efficient end without going down the committee, society, community, council, government road?
     
  12. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,405
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yep.
    I mean, whatever happened to that concept of the reasonable man test? Fair enough, we should have a legally enforcable duty of care, but it is where to draw the line. We would all do well to take responsibility for our own thoughts and actions or lack of them.
     
  13. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "I heartily accept the motto,—"That government is best which governs least"; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe,—"That government is best which governs not at all"; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have." - Henry Thoreau

    "Good leaders create followers, great leaders create leaders." - Jonathan Sacks

    Why don't we all go and plant at least one tree each in a public place, and see what happens? Who knows? It might just catch on! :shock:
     
  14. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,585
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Im under the Impression that a few of are Forgetting some of Bills "Top Ten Hints to Save the envioroment"...Everything weve been chatting away here Disscussing like civilised human beings,( for a change i might add) is what WE CAN do...

    IF everyone who ever eats a fruit, saves, and then sows that seed,EVEN if only %1 survive, that could, in theory,Fill australia in 5 years maybe.
    Imagine that.

    Now that is a Idea,Lets all "distribute" a share of all our seeds.Then take pics to show ....er how about Fruit trees on the road side,or even Cuecumber on the corner block......

    Wheres my monkey suit :lol: :lol:

    Terence
     
  15. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hear, Hear Terence! :D

    I grew up with an apple tree that my father had rescued from a railway embankment as a stripling. By the time I was big enough to climb, that tree was a fully-functioning play set; we climbed it, built cubby houses in it, hung swings off it, carved our names in it, and rested on soft green grass under its cool summer shade. We even ate some of its abundant fruit! That tree probably started as a core tossed from a passing train, and although apples don't grow true from seed, the small, green, squat fruit was sweet and juicy. It had got its roots into an underground stream, and last time I saw it, that backyard apple tree was 20 feet high with branches that cast a shadey circle that must have been 40 feet across.

    I hope there are still kids enjoying that tree today.

    Terence, from now on, all the seeds from my breakfast, work lunches and smoko breaks, instead of going into the rubbish bin, are going in the ground. Anywhere will do. How knows what magic may ensue?

    "Every city in the world could grow its own food, at very low cost." - Bill Mollison
     
  16. Greenearth

    Greenearth Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    consciousness shift...

    ...actually I think that was what Bill was doing there (late november 05 speech)..kinda like playing with words to shift the consciousness of the audience there. ...in fact permacuture does creat a new reality in very practical terms..this 'karma yoga' (is also magic in the traditional sense) cycling out to the wider community...and then you can come up against the masons manor (western money system derived from dodge occult ritual)....and then the block occurs.

    keep trying suckers...'cos you'll fail...sorry we have a 'fucked karma' situation here.

    ...maybe...

    ...but don't worry too much...even this 'ultimate fear' based reality is still a (fear based) illusion...and reality is not in fact fixed and there an an infinite number of realities and at least personnally one escape off into these other realities and you don't have to wait until the body dies to do this theoretically...just to transcend material karma. Then space and time are no longer fixed...and you can instantly teleport around...what the aboriginals call whatever they call it.

    I have experienced this!

    ...and even if one is trapped in thsi reality...so the eco-cide mean death.

    Have no fear!

    i carry on 'the work'...planting out fruit and nut trees (I grow them into plants from seed..if you just plant out seed you'll get huge wastage)..for wild animals and the bird-forms...who i hold to be scared beings! as for western human beings...diodge karma mate, dodgy karma. very very dangerous mind/reality pathogen. MAXIMUM SECRUITY OBSERVATION AND CONTAINMENT. UNIVERSES WIDE MAXIMUM SECRUITY WARNING. EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.

    Om
     
  17. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You're not just growing fruit trees there, are you, infinitegodhead? :wink:
     
  18. PeterM

    PeterM Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I can't stop laughing at that comment, thanks Alex :lol:
     
  19. Greenearth

    Greenearth Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    whooops sorry, of course he meant (probably) that...

    ...permaculture is responding to (negative) changes brought about by 'man'...ie western man...i.e. the anti goddess ritual child abuse pathogen.

    None the less its still valid what I said regarding it (permaculture/forest gardne alchemy) becoming an energy that 'cycles' out into the wider reality...the community out there, and trys to change that...and thus the friction between two energies: one the 'old age' money 'babylon' vampire pathogen...and the other the, well, sharing ethic basically. There are different strands of permaculture..some very materialistic...say like your usual farm...other people take it much furthur and start sharing stuff...planting stuff out for free...thats when its gets cosmic...especially when combined with a pagan/eastern regious type consciusness. Thus the 'krishas garden' type magic possibilities....reality is not fixed, cannabis used auspiously just amplifies this magic...really! not just a hippy head trip! I think doing 'karma yoga' make ones personal magical power as regards this stronger. The opposite tendancy, by the pathogen, is to create mental illness....to infiltrate the individual experiencing this magic and to create mental illness instead...perhaps say to block any consciousness/reality changes of this magical nature within themselves and to projecting onto the percieved channel of the magical change a diagnosis of mental disease. You could say this is the modern day format of the anti pagan/witch inquistion thing...the 'physcriatric monster'. All that being just a false trip.....

    This is why its important not to be (individually) the focus of the consciousness/reality change in these circumstances...i.e. that its the goddess!

    But this is cyberspace and cyberspace is not infinite and is bounded in terms of space and time...(probably due to the negative karmic origins of the way of thinking that created it).

    So the universe is inherently anti technolgy you'll be pleased to hear.

    Don't get addicted to this medium!

    Its serious matter, by the way, 'you' really are in very very serious trouble.
     
  20. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,585
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I cant help but agree with Infinate sometimes.I just wish i could figure it out,
    and to wich ideas i agree with.

    BUT i do agree with his...."dont get addicted to this computer as a medium"

    AND also the bit about Some Permies will share and some wont.

    I think our biggest hangups are "The Money" and our ability to let go of the crap and welcome the new/old ways..

    Some say Life is the survivul of the fittest....Some will say it the "smartest"

    Those who are ready will be the survivors....

    Terence
    A sort of modern day Noah,BUT this time there are thousands of Noahs...

    Noah the Permie........
     

Share This Page

-->