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frosty
15-01-2007, 03:14 PM
have just found out mulberry cuttings are excellent goat food so we want to grow more mulberry trees

we already have one tree - just a ordinary red mulberry -so can we grow more from cuttings ?

and if so has anyone got any tips as to the best method ..... what mulberrys need etc

thanks frosty

Richard on Maui
15-01-2007, 03:36 PM
Mulberries cuttings are really easy. I think the plants are really adaptable too. If you get the fodder cuttings back from the goats before they debark the stems you could probably use those pieces as propagation material.

ho-hum
15-01-2007, 05:49 PM
Frosty,

For once your deep sand will be an advantage. Mulberries are very adaptable but they do like sand. You can plant cuttings into sand and prunings direct. Mulberry is an excellent fodder source for most animals.

I suspect in your area they may need a bit of frost protection in the first year.

cheers

floot

Shack Living
15-01-2007, 07:08 PM
I believe the only downfall of growing mulberry's from cuttings is that they are not as strongly rooted (they dont develop the long tap root)

frosty
16-01-2007, 06:46 AM
thanks everyone

richard what a great idea that way the goats can have their mulberrys and we can plant them too :lol: :lol: as long as we are quick !

floot is it better to plant them direct or put them in water until they get some roots ?

mulberrys do seem to like it here it is the only one of our fruit trees that has much fruit

we have been struggling to grow tagas but if we can strike the mulberrys will give up tagas in favour of mulberries !

and we dont have frost !

byp that may be a problem because we will have to drip irrigate them as well - everything dies here without summer water - and we have trouble getting trees to put down deep roots.

frosty

ho-hum
16-01-2007, 07:34 AM
Frosty,

I am a fan of trying things. So I would plant some direct, some into a box of sand in a shadehouse and some into water, for plants like mulberry. That's just me as a find it is not often that all 3 ways work all the time for whatever reason.

I have never grown tagas but from all of my reading etc they should be prime plants for you, and apparently easily established too. Dont worry frosty, not for the first time I have seen this happen that for some reason one person/place cant grow a particular plant that grows like a weed for their neighbours.

I had this very scenario with white mulberries. I tried several times with cuttings [in pots] and no success. I eventually took cuttings when the tree was under absolute stress, hadnt been watered for months, losing its leaves etc and tried the ''3 ways'' thing and they all struck. I had a similar thing with dogwood/rosewood [dunno the latin] and eventually I found a 6' long cutting on the side of the road and buried that about 2' in with a posthole digger and that was growing nicely till a grassfire nailed it.... :(

Frosty, a suggestion for your drip irrigation. When you first plant a tree put the dripper close and dont mulch too close to the tree. After you know it is established [a couple of months] dig a hole maybe a foot deep and a foot away from the tree and put the dripper in that and cover it with mulch. This will push the tree into looking for water and also let water get down to the root zone. I think you are in an area that the sand sheds water ie the water will run all over the place and not sink in. This will help that.

cheers

floot

Richard on Maui
16-01-2007, 09:56 AM
That's interesting Floot, about the white mulberry. I have been told emphatically that the only way they will propagate is marcott, or air layering... I have even repeated that information... :lol:

JR
16-01-2007, 10:59 AM
Ive had huge sucess with mulberry cuttings without even meaning to, I pruned my black mulberry alittle bit last year and as I recycle everything in the garden as I dont have a shredder of any type and the pruning where quite woody I decided to cut them up with sceaturs (spelling?) and throw them on the front "ornamental" garden with the other excess green waste to mulch in-situ

Fast forward abit, I noticed these green shoots shooting up in the front garden and noticed they where any of the normal weedy plants that come up here so I left them for alittle bit just to watch them.

Turn out they where mulberrys, without even trying I had propagated 40 or so mulberry trees...

ho-hum
16-01-2007, 10:07 PM
Richard,

I was surprised at the success of the shatoot. The reason it was under stress is because my pal moved off the property after it was destroyed by flood and finished off by a nasty divorce.

We went out there about a year later and the tree was still alive, but only just. Sadly, I planted 4 trees [in case] and lost them to a later flood as they were only babies and the water was over them for a couple of months and I wasnt there to rescue them.

When I get back to Katherine I will check the original tree to see if it has miraculously survived and take some more cuttings.

floot

frosty
26-02-2007, 06:15 AM
back when I started this topic we put 6 cuttings in a pot in sand and put the pot in the shallow part of the pond

wealso put about another 8 in a old leaky bucket just standing in the water

the ones in water got leaves almost straight away but still show no signs of getting roots

we potted 2 putting on back into the pond and one down in the veggie garden where in gets the sprinkler ....... both have withered

the cuttings we put straight into pots never shot and when we looked their were no roots just the bark had rotted near the bottom

any ideas on what we are doing wrong ?

frosty

PULSE
26-02-2007, 08:09 AM
sounds like maybe too much water frosty, just keep your cutting mix moist,talk to them abit tellem they lovely little mulberries

Richard on Maui
26-02-2007, 09:19 AM
I usually expect to get less than 50% strike rate and so just make lots of cuttings. I don't know if my methods are inferior or if this is just how it goes. They can look pretty dead and then come to life for no reason. When I said before that they are easy, I meant it like; you just stick a bunch of cuttings into some mix and some of them grow. Not so much that every one will grow...
It may be that the wood you are trying isn't the right age? I would generally go for cuttings that aren't too old, but aren't the new years growth... but then I think I have had success with old ones and young ones.
Do you have any willow growing anywhere near you? You can make a "rooting hormone tea" by soaking willow cuttings in a bucket, and putting your other cuttings in the bucket with them. You can plant the willow cuttings too...
Did you try soaking any of your cuttings in water before planting? Just plain water might help stimulate roots...

Michaelangelica
26-02-2007, 04:03 PM
I tried to grow white mulberry cuttings earlier this year without success
(White Mulberry has very sweet fruit and the birds don't get them)

Every other Greek garden has them growing along with figs, grapes, lemons etc
so it can't be too hard.
I am about to try again
I might try an asprin or willow water and soak them in that first

I have found this on the web. Seems you need hardwood cuttings and can grow them from seed or root cuttings
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/loa ... 94.html?10 (http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/trees/msg0513113914894.html?10)


This is from the Univ of FL...
on red mulb.


Propagation by Cuttings
Cutting type: secondary
Time of year to take cuttings: spring
Cutting maturity: hardwood
Rooting hormone : IBA Quick Dip 12000 PPM
Rooting environment : intermittent mist
Soil temperature for best rooting : 70-80 degrees F
Comment: It could be propagated by root cuttings in spring.

Propagation by Seed
Time of year to collect seed: summer
Time of year to sow seed: spring
Seed treatment : stratify 40F 2-3mo.
Time required for germination : 1-2 weeks
Comment: The germination environment temperature is 86 degrees F during the dayand 68 degrees F at night. Beds need mulch and half shade.

Propagation by Grafting
Time of year to graft: early spring
Type of graft: 'T'
this is good

The white mulberry is the most cold-hardy of the three species,

Sprig budding is the most common method for grafting mulberries. A T-cut is made in the rootstock and a smooth, sloping cut is made on the lower end of the scion. The scion is then inserted into the T and wrapped and sealed. Other types of grafts are also usually successful, although there may be incompatibility between white and black mulberries.

Hardwood, softwood and root cuttings also are suitable methods for propagating mulberries. Softwood cuttings of white mulberries root easily when taken in midsummer and treated with rooting hormone. Red mulberries are less easily rooted. Black mulberries are also somewhat difficult to propagate since they tend to bleed a lot.
http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mulberry.html
Never seen a red mulberry. They list quite a few varieties at this site never seen them in OZ. Anyone know of a mulberry specialist nursery?

Kids love Mulberry Trees- three local kids have got their orders in for me to produce them one- so far I have failed. Not only do they love to eat them I think they like having red messy faces and they love growing silkworms

Silkworms will eat the foliage although it's the White Mulberry (Morus alba) that they really favour. http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s302479.htm

I have a mulberry story.

A good friend had a huge black mulberry at his back door. He complained that the kids trod them into the house and the birds craped them everywhere. As a surprise present I went to a nursery and got him a White Mulberry. I told him about it and he was delighted. He planted it next to his other mulberry (Which he hoped he could talk the kids into chopping down once he had a satisfactory substitute).
The white mulberry grew gangbusters and in a few years fruited
Yes you know
Black
He has never forgiven me. The kids and the trees are now huge. The mess at fruiting time is amazing.

TropicalRose
26-02-2007, 04:09 PM
Floot I was told you can't grow white mulberries this far north (lecturer at TAFE Horticulture course) and a few books. Well there you go. I was also told they taste heavenly so I might have to source some seedlings now.

Richard from Maui, is it tropical where you live & how do you grow willows if it is? I thought they were only a cold climate tree.
Golleey, just look how much you can learn from this sort of forum. :lol:

ho-hum
26-02-2007, 05:25 PM
Rose,

A few of properties in Katherine have the white mulberry.

Also.. I have seen photos of willow trials at the CSIRO farm in Katherine dating back to the 50s. They were a real success, so much of a success they were concerned about it being a weed. Some of them reached over 20' in one year [I think from seed].

When I get back to Katherine I will grab a few cuttings and get you one.

Cheers

floot

Tezza
26-02-2007, 11:45 PM
hey frosty If you keep this up ill need to visit for a month i got some black mullberries,I grew mine from cuttings...I get great fruit these days and have enough leaves to feed my silk worms...I also have weeping willows if you want cuttings for rooting juice..

Tezza

frosty
27-02-2007, 06:35 AM
Hi richard, pulse and tezza ( I am not worrying about white mulberries black are too difficult for me :lol: )


I usually expect to get less than 50% strike rate and so just make lots of cuttings. I don't know if my methods are inferior or if this is just how it goes. They can look pretty dead and then come to life for no reason. When I said before that they are easy, I meant it like; you just stick a bunch of cuttings into some mix and some of them grow. Not so much that every one will grow...

i would be happy with 50 % but 0% of the ones we stuck in soil grew :lol: and at first it looked like about 50% with the ones in water getting leaves

pulse maybe it is too much water but then when only the ones in water are getting leaves who nows :?



It may be that the wood you are trying isn't the right age? I would generally go for cuttings that aren't too old, but aren't the new years growth... but then I think I have had success with old ones and young ones.

the cuttings are all from wood about 1 year old ........ the tree is in a mesh enclosure so we hav to prune it heavily every year or it escapes !

I think I will try some cuttings of older wood from the neighbour's tree


Do you have any willow growing anywhere near you? You can make a "rooting hormone tea" by soaking willow cuttings in a bucket, and putting your other cuttings in the bucket with them. You can plant the willow cuttings too...

no willows with 100kms or so :lol: too dry and hot up here

but tezza I would appreciate some cuttings to soak thank you


Did you try soaking any of your cuttings in water before planting? Just plain water might help stimulate roots...

we didnt soak the ones we planted so will try that too

will also try talking to them :lol:

although I do think the ducks have been saying a fair bit to them about what tasty looking leaves they have if only they could reach them :lol: :lol:

thanks everyone

frosty

TropicalRose
27-02-2007, 09:05 AM
Thanks floot I would really appreciate that. Isn't it lovely having another 'local'.
I have a black mulberry already that was grown from a cutting and bought at a market but its still in the pot. I'm even going to try broccoli this year as I believe it grows better at Adelaide River than Darwin area.
I have heard before that willows make good hormone rooting liquid and great charcoal for art. Best kept away from waterways though I think.
Cheers

Richard on Maui
27-02-2007, 03:34 PM
Maui is sort of subtropical in my opinion. Haven't seen willows here, but I'm sure they would love it here. (I've done the willow water root hormone thing in northern nsw and se qld).

ho-hum
27-02-2007, 05:41 PM
Rose,

My father-in-law was a victorian market gardener.. melbourne and then mildura. He spent his life on the land mostly as a horticulturist.

He always maintained that the finest vegetables he ever grew was at Adelaide River during WW2. He was stationed at Katherine, Darwin and Adelaide River [also spent time in the Solomons].

Broccoli grows fine. I have never had an issue with it. Play around with varieties too, makes a huge difference. I have picked cabbages and cauliflower in Katherine in November.... :D

floot

TropicalRose
27-02-2007, 07:32 PM
Floot, this is so brilliant for me having someone with local knowledge who's been there done that. I get so much negative input from people who say it can't be done because the insects get everything. I suspect they may have used traditional methods/insecticides and upset the natural balance too much? To get this sort of input on a permie site is just great. I have planted a few vegies on the new place and they get much less insect attack than at Humpty Doo which is as you may know is almost suburban these days.
Umm, sorry everyone else if we are getting a bit off the subject here.

Taswegian
21-12-2008, 12:08 PM
Peter from Wynyard, coastal NW Tasmania. Very interesting site and discussions. I have put in maybe 60 black mulberry cuttings, of varying sizes from branching 2 ft high cuttings to very small ones of a few inches with 1 or 2 buds above the ground. They are in mostly sandy loamy type soils, planted in the ways mentioned here. Some smaller cuttings are covered by opaque plastic containers but most are in direct sunlight. Now (a few days before Christmas), the larger branch type cuttings are sprouting a few leaves which are turning yellow. Reading comments here, I have the feeling I am over watering them. At the moment I am watering them heavily with a hose almost daily. Is this way too much?

Also, I do have an established healthy black mulberry tree, currently with new leaves but still prior to its main flush of growth. how would I go, taking and trying to strike cuttings from it now? On the coast here our summer temps are mostly 19 to 24c degrees, with the odd hotter day.

Michaelangelica
21-12-2008, 01:41 PM
It should be fine to take cuttings now

I would be inclined to put several 10-20 in a big pot (6-8") of commercial cutting mix. (Cost $5-10)that way you are less likely to get fungal problems.
you can try giving them soak in a1/4 of an asprin overnight.
The ABC gardening people also often recommend using a little honey on the end of the cutting.
Always use a "dibbler" when planting the cuttings, you will get a much better strike rate.
Water every day or cover with a plastic bag if you can't.
You will ten need to pot them up in Spring and grow them on for a while.

Are you starting a silk farm?
I read the other day that silk made the first fishing lines

Watering with a hose. What's a hose?
O I remember we used to use those in the olden days before it stopped raining
(I hate you) :)

Taswegian
22-12-2008, 03:57 PM
This is great information above (I've contacted Michaelangelica directly), but I still need to know what is turning the new leaves on my cuttings yellow. ?? I'm presuming excess water until told otherwise. I am not into silkworms and after a failure last year, am trying to get "1" cutting to strike as I have a good source tree and heaps of room to plonk in 1000s of cuttings if need be.

ho-hum
02-01-2009, 10:45 PM
Taswegian,

Mulberry leaves do turn yellow when they are about to drop off. I have seen this with cutting that the leaves have been left on. Remove all adult leaves and leave a few sprouts on near the buds. I appreciate your climate there and seasonality. Now having taken a large number of successful mulberry cuttings/plants over a long time. The only ones I lose, are the ones that rot. DRAINAGE IS PARAMOUNT.

I can also offer a very very consistent cheap locally available and successful cutting mix if any chatter with a track record cares to PM me. I only say this because this site is now trolled by folk who make a name for themselves and money trolling sites like this for suggestions which they claim their 'granny' gave them.

cheers,

ho-hum

qis
03-01-2009, 12:12 AM
I don't know if this story is useful to you. We had a mulberry tree that got hit by lightning and couldn't be saved. The tree was cut up into branches and logs and stuck into a wettish spot in the garden. Quite a few of the branches struck. Jackie French's New Plants From Old has specific instructions too.

ho-hum
03-01-2009, 10:16 PM
tas..

Mulberries are leaf shedders, ie on a hot or cold day, they will shed. Also their leaf size is such that the mere fact of being planted/transplanted means they will shed. Figs will do the same. This makes them the ultimate cutting plant, too much water and you get leaf shed, too much nitrogen, the same - that said, mulberries will thrive.

QIS, you have a number of 'shots' in your locker, you still wont tell us where you are, but sadly, you tell us what wont work.

Share with us not your speculations, share with us what you know.

cheers,

ho-hum

Taswegian
05-01-2009, 03:38 PM
Thankyou all. Your sentiments make growing Mulberries from cuttings sound as easy as growing blackberries. (Blackberries are prolific and an absolute weed around here). I am told by an older expert gardener, where I have the cuttings, has excellent drainage. I am now seeing in green shoots on a few cuttings so have all my fingers and toes crossed, they will also not change colour. For what it is worth, an established mulberry tree in my garden, is this year absolutely loaded with "green" fruit. I spent a lot of the weekend joining 5 metre squares of anti bird netting together, then sliding it up over poly pipe supports, completely blackbird proofing the tree. Mulberries normally ripen about February here. I appreciate your feedback, thankyou.

Taswegian